Help with a missing marriage please

[meekhcs]

I forgot to post the possible parents for marriage.
I assumed it was George and Elizabeth as recorded in the 1891 census but that didn't work, however I found the following:-
Esther Simmons m William Garratt/John Morral (so yet another variation) 1859 Q2 Walsall Vol 6b, page 749
Esther was the Mother in the 1891 census so would have been early 40s for birth of Lily if she was hers.

[Norfolk Nan]

Quite right Mick, but I assume by 1915 both parties were able to read (Willie's sister was a school teacher so they must have been educated even if he was just an asphalter) so a mistake on a birth certificate would be noticed, wouldn't it? It's going to be one of those conundrums that will never be solved

[Norfolk Nan]

Thanks again, Meekhcs. I found someone else and was haring off down the wrong path - funny how that so easily happens. I've tried several times to find this couple - the Walmsleys are pretty straightforward but Lily! Just shows that you do have to keep an open mind regarding spelling and variations.

The big mystery is the brother sent to Barnardos - does anyone think it would be possible to solve that mystery just based on name of mother? I imagine the boy was born between 1910-1920.

[AntonyM]

Quite right Mick, but I assume by 1915 both parties were able to read (Willie's sister was a school teacher so they must have been educated even if he was just an asphalter) so a mistake on a birth certificate would be noticed, wouldn't it? It's going to be one of those conundrums that will never be solved

Do you have a birth certificate - or are you making an assumption that it is wrong from the index entry ?

[Erm79]

I can see two MORROLL boys born to a SIMMONS mother in the birth indexes but they both appear to have died in infancy:

John Thomas b September Q 1873 BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 76
Died March Q 1874 Birmingham Vol 6d Page 51 [note he is indexed as MORRALL]

William Richard b Dec Q 1881 BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 120
Died Sept Q 1883  Birmingham Vol 6d page 56

All the other MORROLL births in the Birmingham district seem to be to RUSSELL or HOLLIDAY mothers, with no MORROLL births in that district at all 1903 - 1920.

I also tried the spelling MORRELL / MORRAL / MORROW in the Birmingham district but no SIMMONS mother there either.

I did look for an indication of illegitimate births in case one of the elder girls was actually the boys mother but the only registration where MMN matches the surname given was a John MORRALL . I can't find him in the 1891 census.

[meekhcs]

I have had a quick look for another marriage for Lily with no result. My assumption would therefore be that she had an illegitimate son. Therefore you would need to troll the GRO birth records for a male Morroll Mother's name Morroll or Mother's name blank. It would be hard going because you would need to search using all the possible variations. As Lily remained in the Worcester area you could search the local and adjacent registration areas which would speed things up.

The other possibility is that any boy could have been William's son. Lily may have refused to care for him as he wasn't her own.

Thirdly it may be quicker to search the Banardo's websites or the British Home children websites. Google will bring up all the available sites. I have not used them so I do not know which is best.

Sally

[Erm79]

Sorry - ignore my post. I assumed original poster meant Lily had a brother who was sent to a Barnados home, not that she had a son (or step son) who was sent away. That'll teach me for not reading the whole thread thoroughly!

[Norfolk Nan]

Thanks, everyone. Although the couple appear to have married in Worcester in 1913 (that would make sense because Lily was there in 1911 at her brother's pub and isn't a pub a good place for couples to meet?) they returned to Tottenham where William's family lived. So, an illegitimate son might have been born prior to 1913 in the Worcester/Birmingham areas (she had connections to both areas) or a child might have been born in London during WW1 if William was absent in the army. If that's the case what name was the boy registered under - still mother's maiden name Morrell. More possibilities

And yes, I'm assuming the child is Lily's - good point meekhcs! OMG - that makes it even more complicated. Too many possibilities!

As for the duff name on the index, I'm guilty of making assumptions! No birth cert yet so it might be a simple transcription error.

[Grea]

Lily Agnes Morroll was my great grandfathers sister. I know my fathers uncle George Morroll, used to stay at the pub with lily when he was a young lad. There was never a mention of a young lad in the family so the boy is a mystery. I have hit a brick wall with Lily on our family tree so any info would be very useful.

[Norfolk Nan]

Hi Grea, and welcome to the forum.

I am connected to Daisy (born 1915), Lily’s daughter. My parents rented some rooms in Daisy’s house in Tottenham until the street was demolished in the 1960s. She was part of my family until her death. Lily had died before I was born but I remember Daisy talking about the brother being sent to Barnardos as a reason for supporting the charity. No one can remember his name or why. I know nothing about Lily before her marriage to William Walmsley but might be able to add more about her later life if you’d like to message me.