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Another Murray

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VALLMO9
Posts: 756
Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: Another Murray

Post by VALLMO9 »

Where is James in 1851? Have you located him yet?
Also, who are his wife's parents? Where is Eliza in 1841 and 1851? When did she hook up with James?
jonwarrn
Posts: 313
Joined: 03 Jul 2020, 19:49

Re: Another Murray

Post by jonwarrn »

There are several settlement exams for a Murray family in Islington
Thomas Murray, 53, Married, 3 Marys Row, in December 1836.
In the sworn exam books. It's actually his wife Jane who is being examined, re her husband's settlement.
Three children, Charlotte, 11, William, 7, and James, 5

I can see from it that they are the same family with six children who were removed from Islington to Shoreditch in 1829 (and the Shoreditch records for that are indexed on ancestry, with images, in those London settlement records in which we found the other Thomas, the one who married Jane Susannah. See my first post)

Jane Murry, 63, Widow, Wards Place, 13 February 1847. Remarks says Shoreditch but also says irremovable.
I can't find the right exam book on ancestry, only the ones either side!

William Murray, 21, Single, Wards Place, 25 January 1850. (Settlement) Shoreditch
This is a brief one in the rough book.
"I am son of Thomas + Jane Murry. My mother now resides in Wards Place.
I never gained a settlement in my own right.
I worked + resided at Wandsworth 6 mths last Summer"
It says The parents settled in Shoreditch (and gives dates of their exams)
Attachments
Jane Murray re Thomas Murray Examination 1836.jpg
Jane Murray re Thomas Murray Examination 1836.jpg (659.65 KiB) Viewed 425 times
VALLMO9
Posts: 756
Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: Another Murray

Post by VALLMO9 »

Using jonwarrn's latest settlement record(s) find this could be the Ealing marriage for Thomas & Jane:

10 March 1805 - Ealing
Thomas MURREY & Jane POWNEY
Jas SIMMONDS & Sarah POWNEY (looks like the Powney sisters married on the same day)
Norfolk Nan
Posts: 499
Joined: 16 Jun 2020, 11:54
Location: A Londoner lost in Norfolk

Re: Another Murray

Post by Norfolk Nan »

Well, all I can say is thank you again and again! Such a lot of interesting information to work with! I'm fascinated by Thomas and Jane of the settlement history but that suggests, I think(?), that the Thomas Murray+Jane Susannah Parsons couple aren't the pair in the 1841 census. That marriage took place in 1826 and that Thomas was a widower.

In answer to Mo's question re James Murray (birth c1833 in Islington and son of Thomas) I have a James Murray, 17, lodging at 3 Titchbourne Place, Paddington, occupation cab driver (if I've read it correctly) in 1841, born in the county. Is he my James? I haven't found a better option.

No idea when he met Eliza Summerfield, her first child was born in 1853 in Islington and registered as Eliza Summerfield (father not mentioned). The next child arrived in 1856 and five more arrived regularly and all registered as Murray even though the parents didn't marry until 1863 (St Mary's, Islington).

Charlotte's a new name in the mix. She's not with the Murray family in the 1841 census so did she die or is this a different family? Sorry, thinking out loud. Apologies for not really having digested all this info (and thank you again) - life is getting in the way this week - so I need to narrow down all the candidates and try to find James' parents.
VALLMO9
Posts: 756
Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: Another Murray

Post by VALLMO9 »

Norfolk Nan wrote: 29 Nov 2023, 15:35 ...but that suggests, I think(?), that the Thomas Murray+Jane Susannah Parsons couple aren't the pair in the 1841 census. That marriage took place in 1826 and that Thomas was a widower.
Yes, I think we can safely say that is a different Murray family (the one with Jane Susannah Parsons). You can rule them out.
The family whom jonwarrn found yesterday is a possibility for the 1841 family in Islington. However, you would need to do more research to confirm they are the same family. Keep checking Ancestry (if you have a sub). Some of us don't have Ancestry subs at this time. ;)

Perhaps Charlotte, from the Settlement family, married or was placed in service by 1841. Or she may have died.

James Murray (born c1833) is slippery around the time of the 1851 census. The cab driver in Paddington may not be him.

What is the address on the birth cert of Eliza's first born in 1853 in Islington please? Or on the baptism record, if you don't have the cert.
Last edited by VALLMO9 on 29 Nov 2023, 15:53, edited 1 time in total.
Norfolk Nan
Posts: 499
Joined: 16 Jun 2020, 11:54
Location: A Londoner lost in Norfolk

Re: Another Murray

Post by Norfolk Nan »

Sorry, in answer to the question about Eliza's parents: Robert Summerfield (born 1790 Newport Pagnell, Bucks) married Ann Binyon (born 1792 Woburn, Beds) on 14 Feb 1815 at Woburn, Beds. First child born that same year in Woburn, next child born 1817 in Islington. In total they had five children and the last four were all baptised at St Mary's, Islington.

Eliza and her sister Hannah were witnesses (with partner) to the other's marriage on the same day. In 1841 Eliza is with her parents in St Mary's, Islington (sorry no street noted but probably Paradise Place) and a live-in servant in 1851 (details missing).
VALLMO9
Posts: 756
Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: Another Murray

Post by VALLMO9 »

Do you have the address where Eliza's first daughter was born in 1853?
NOTE: Paradise Place and Elder Walk were near each other at the time.
Norfolk Nan
Posts: 499
Joined: 16 Jun 2020, 11:54
Location: A Londoner lost in Norfolk

Re: Another Murray

Post by Norfolk Nan »

Address for Eliza Summerfield's 1853 birth: 19 Dorset Street, Balls Pond Road, Islington. Baptised in 1865 at St Mary's, Islington. I think I read the church was new and drew a huge crowd thanks to the charismatic preacher but that's a vague memory...
VALLMO9
Posts: 756
Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: Another Murray

Post by VALLMO9 »

As mentioned earlier, Charlotte may have been in service by 1841. She would've been the right age at the time (about 16). Or she may have died. Too young to have married by 1841. As for James in 1851, I'm having doubts the fellow in Paddington is him. You'll need to research it a lot more.
You said your chap did lots of various jobs though the decades. I doubt a cab driver would've chopped and changed jobs like that.
Norfolk Nan
Posts: 499
Joined: 16 Jun 2020, 11:54
Location: A Londoner lost in Norfolk

Re: Another Murray

Post by Norfolk Nan »

Of course a lot more digging about is needed but why, out of interest, are you dubious about James in 1851? There's so little to go on so I'm not convinced myself but why do you think it isn't him?
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