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Kenneth James Jarvis RAF Records WW2

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JasonB
Posts: 15
Joined: 29 Oct 2022, 10:10

Kenneth James Jarvis RAF Records WW2

Post by JasonB »

I am trying to locate the service records for Kenneth James Jarvis (1919-1996). He served in WW2 in the RAF as part of the VR. He was a Flying Officer in the RAF VR in 1943 according to an article in the North Devon Journal dated 30th December 1943 which detailed his engagement to Hermoine Jane Elizabeth Isaac. They married on Saturday 29th April 1944 in Barnstaple, Devon (article in North Devon Journal dated 4th May 1944).

According to the London Gazette dated 31st July 1942 (page 3412) he was listed as part of the RAF Voluntary Reserve with 123959 in brackets after his name. In the London Gazette dated 3rd November 1944 (page 5075) he is listed as a Flight Sergeant with 1320352 before his name and 185112 in brackets after his name.

There is an notice in the London Gazette dated 11th August 1939 (page 5547) which lists a Kenneth James Jarvis as part of the 5th Bn W. Yorks R.. He is a Private and late cadet of St. Peters School Contingent, Junior Division O.T.C. According to the 1939 Census he was living in Harrogate, Yorkshire so am unsure if the Kenneth named in the 1939 issue of the Gazette is him.

I have also found a record for a Kenneth James Jarvis, regiment number 1320352 on forces-war-records.co.uk which stated that he enlisted in the RAF at Oxford and probably after 1940. There is also a National Archives Reference AIR 78 85 3 attached to this record but I cannot locate it on the NAR website.

As an aside his father was Arthur Stopford Jarvis MC (WW1).

Any help in this would be appreciated
VALLMO9
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Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: Kenneth James Jarvis RAF Records WW2

Post by VALLMO9 »

JasonB wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 08:18 I am trying to locate the service records for Kenneth James Jarvis (1919-1996). He served in WW2 in the RAF as part of the VR.
WW2 records are still with the Ministry of Defence (MOD), and there are delays in processing orders.
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-se ... es-records

It costs £30 to apply for each record, which is non-refundable. The fee covers research and administrative costs.
VALLMO9
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Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: Kenneth James Jarvis RAF Records WW2

Post by VALLMO9 »

JasonB wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 08:18 I have also found a record for a Kenneth James Jarvis, regiment number 1320352 on forces-war-records.co.uk which stated that he enlisted in the RAF at Oxford and probably after 1940. There is also a National Archives Reference AIR 78 85 3 attached to this record but I cannot locate it on the NAR website.
The National Archives reference is actually AIR 78/85/12. Here's the link: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... /C15624487

The records resemble index cards with just the Name and Service number. There is a card for Kenneth James Jarvis (1320352) located on Image number 5 in the set. It can be viewed in the "Preview an image of this record" link.
VALLMO9
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Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: Kenneth James Jarvis RAF Records WW2

Post by VALLMO9 »

JasonB wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 08:18 There is an notice in the London Gazette dated 11th August 1939 (page 5547) which lists a Kenneth James Jarvis as part of the 5th Bn W. Yorks R.. He is a Private and late cadet of St. Peters School Contingent, Junior Division O.T.C. According to the 1939 Census he was living in Harrogate, Yorkshire so am unsure if the Kenneth named in the 1939 issue of the Gazette is him.
LEEDS MERCURY
Tuesday 22 August 1939
"OFFICERS FROM ST. PETER’S -- ...I find that among the second lieutenants are the following former members of the St Peter’s O.T.C. — Thomas Dennison Ambler, Duncan Maclean, Kenneth James Jarvis, John Cameron Oddy Stansfield, Richard Gordon Manners Quarrle. This is a good contribution by one school to the personnel the new battalion".

If you know your Kenneth's DoB, hopefully you can locate him in the 1939 Register, in order to confirm where he is. If you're unable to locate him in 1939, then this could be the reason:

Registration of members of the armed forces was dealt with by the military authorities, so the 1939 Register does not include service personnel in military, naval and air force establishments. Nor does it include members of the armed forces billeted in private homes, including their own homes. However, since conscription did not begin in earnest until January 1940, most people who subsequently served in the armed forces during the Second World War were still civilians in September 1939.

The records do include:

* members of the armed forces on leave
* civilians on military bases
JasonB
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Joined: 29 Oct 2022, 10:10

Re: Kenneth James Jarvis RAF Records WW2

Post by JasonB »

Thank you for the information. I know the date of birth for Kenneth. However, in the 1939 census the record is OFFICIALLY CLOSED for him as he was still alive when the census was made available. If I am correct with regards to this closed entry being for Kenneth then he was living at home with his parents and sister as well as a servant.

I will check out the Leeds Mercury article.
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AdrianBruce
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Location: South Cheshire

Re: Kenneth James Jarvis RAF Records WW2

Post by AdrianBruce »

JasonB wrote: 04 Nov 2022, 09:41 Thank you for the information. I know the date of birth for Kenneth. However, in the 1939 census the record is OFFICIALLY CLOSED for him as he was still alive when the census was made available. ...
If he died in 1996, then he was not alive when the 1939 Register was made available via FindMyPast. As far as the 1939 system is concerned, if he is in the 1939 Register (if), then he is still alive - though you give 1996 for his date of death, and 1919 for his birth.

So he should be visible for two reasons - firstly because it's over 100y since his birth, and secondly because he died in 1996.

There are all sorts of possible reasons why he has failed to appear on either account.
  • He isn't the entry that you think he is and he's not visible for one of the reasons that Mo cites (such as he's already in the Forces because the Leeds Mercury report is him - in which case he might not have been in the Register in the first place);
  • There's an error in the original date of birth on the Register;
  • There's a transcription error in the date of birth in the indexing;
  • There's a bigger transcription error because the lines have got out of step in the indexing (this is why there are women with male names and vice versa);
  • His death details on the GRO England & Wales death registration index have not uniquely matched the 1939 Register entry index - I think that in 1996, the death index includes the date of birth, so we're back to the possibility of the 1939 index having an incorrect date of birth;
  • Etc.
Having said all that, I'm not sure that the 1939 Register is that important to your investigation - though every little helps, of course...
Adrian Bruce
VALLMO9
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Joined: 13 Jun 2020, 21:28

Re: Kenneth James Jarvis RAF Records WW2

Post by VALLMO9 »

AdrianBruce wrote: 04 Nov 2022, 16:56 Having said all that, I'm not sure that the 1939 Register is that important to your investigation - though every little helps, of course...
Since the OP isn't sure if the chap he's researching is also the cadet from St Peter's OTC I mentioned the 1939 Register -- in case there is an occupation listed for KJJ -- wherever he may be in Sept 1939. In any event, the OP needs to order the service record(s) from the MOD, if he's still interested in them. Full service records can be obtained by next of kin, or in reduced form by others.
Last edited by VALLMO9 on 04 Nov 2022, 17:47, edited 1 time in total.
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AdrianBruce
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Location: South Cheshire

Re: Kenneth James Jarvis RAF Records WW2

Post by AdrianBruce »

Well, I can eliminate one of your chaps...

Assuming there is no doubt about him being "a Flying Officer in the RAF VR in 1943", then he could be the Kenneth James Jarvis 123959, who is in the London Gazette of July 1942 as one of several newly appointed Pilot Officers in the RAFVR.

The same numbered guy is promoted to be Flying Officer in the Jan 1943 Gazette (which matches the mariage details).

And again the same numbered guy is promoted to be Flight Lieutenant in the July 1944 Gazette.

That being so, there's no way he's the Flight Sergeant (a lower rank) in the Gazette of Nov 1944 being promoted to Pilot Officer (see previous page) newly numbered 1320352 (formerly 185112 - though the numbers might be the other way round!). So 1320352 is another guy entirely and can't be the guy who marries in 1943.
Adrian Bruce
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AdrianBruce
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Location: South Cheshire

Re: Kenneth James Jarvis RAF Records WW2

Post by AdrianBruce »

VALLMO9 wrote: 04 Nov 2022, 17:18 ... Since the OP isn't sure if the chap he's researching is also the cadet from St Peter's OTC I mentioned the 1939 Register -- in case there is an occupation listed for KJJ -- wherever he may be in Sept 1939. In any event, the OP needs to order the service record(s) from the MOD, if he's still interested in them.
Agreed.
Adrian Bruce
JasonB
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Joined: 29 Oct 2022, 10:10

Re: Kenneth James Jarvis RAF Records WW2

Post by JasonB »

There is no doubt he was a Flying Officer in 1943 as borne out in the newspaper articles concerning his engagement and marriage to Hermione Jane Elizabeth Isaac. Therefore I am near certain that his service number was 123959 as mentioned in the reply from Adrian but will need to obtain his records to confirm.

In addition to the articles previously mentioned there is another one.

In the North Devon Journal dated Thursday 20th September 1945 there was an announcement regarding the birth of a daughter (on 14th September) to Jane (nee Isaac), wife of Flight-Lieutenant Kenneth James Jarvis RAF VR B.O.A.R.

However, I am a little confused regards his military service based on my research and the research done by others on here.

If he is the Kenneth James noted in the articles concerning the St Peter's School OTC he enlisted in the 2/5th W. Yorks Regiment (army) around 1939. In 1942 he was in the RAF until at least 1945 then according to the September 1945 article described above he was RAF VR BAOR. BAOR stands for British Army of the Rhine according to a Google search.

Did he move between the services or am I looking at two different people?
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